Dogmatism – but with pragmatism
Maybe it’s all just a coincidence. Last Sunday, Stellantis boss Carlos Tavarez was still sitting with French President Macron at dinner, we had already hinted at it in “A bar of soap”. There, he claims to have explained to the head of state in detail that the Euro 7 standard is only a waste of resources, of money, but above all of spirit; the best engineers absolutely have to work on the future now. And not on a further reduction of CO2 emissions, which would be disproportionate to the effort, would make small and medium-sized vehicles in particular unnecessarily more expensive and would lead to compliance problems that could not be met at all. Shortly afterwards, Emmanuel Macron travelled to Brussels to the EU Council – and shortly afterwards the corresponding EU Commission overturned its proposal for new standards. This was also on the grounds that there would be no need for new regulations by the time the internal combustion engine is phased out in 2035.
Perhaps it was all just a coincidence. Perhaps Tavarez has known for some time that the EU-7 standard would not come in the form proposed so far. But maybe his word carries weight, at least in French politics. It is quite conceivable, Stellantis is an important employer in France – and the analytical mind of the company boss is highly regarded worldwide. The 64-year-old Portuguese is highly eloquent in many a language, he is extremely direct, he gets straight to the point. And he can explain everything very vividly.
We sat down with the Stellantis boss on Monday. No interview, no 1:1, a so-called “round table”. It makes no difference, actually, you ask him a question – and then only Tavarez speaks. Without notes – without interruption. He has the numbers in his head anyway – and in which direction he wants to turn the “conversation”, he knows that beforehand. The Euro 7 standard is just a side issue for him, a waste of valuable resources, of time, of engineering services. And the European car industry cannot afford that.
Tavarez is a terrific narrator. And he grips his audience with a common denominator that everyone can probably agree on: Reason. The EU Commission must make sensible decisions, the politicians must follow the will and above all the needs of the people. If this did not happen, the European car industry would be in danger (all except Stellantis, “Stellantis is fine, we are strong, we will survive this”), then many jobs would be in danger, then the middle class would be threatened, then there would be “social upheavals”. The Euro 7 standard is only a small piece of the mosaic, but Tavarez prefers to paint bigger pictures.
It is imperative to get a grip on production and supply chains. Produce where you need the products – that’s why Stellantis is building its own battery factories in Italy, France and Germany, for example. These must then also be supplied with natural resources from Europe, for example their own lithium. But the legal prerequisites would also have to be created, immediately, no lengthy approval procedures. Otherwise it will be too late. Sure, you can follow that, everything: reasonable.
And then: China. “Of course we face the challenge, competition is important,” says Tavarez, “and we are not afraid, we are not afraid of comparison.” But: “We have to be able to fight on equal terms”. The EU has opened the door to China in recent years, he says, and there are no longer any trade restrictions. But that is one-sided; the Chinese can import, but the Europeans cannot export to the same extent. The Chinese are allowed to do anything, disregard human rights, pay the cheapest wages, and there are no environmental regulations anyway. “That’s not fair,” says Tavarez in a very low voice, knowing that he has his audience under control.
“I am against import tariffs,” he then says, “but we need them now. We need a transitional phase so that we can reposition ourselves until we are ready, until we can meet the challenge on an equal footing”. He says the main issue is “reasonably priced” vehicles; the current European-made e-cars are too expensive, “far too few people can afford them. And that slows down the changeover. And then we can’t meet the targets demanded by politicians”. One can no longer defend oneself against the dogmatism of politicians and civil servants. But adding a little pragmatism to this is still possible.
Currently, Tavarez points out, the average car on European roads is 12 years old – and getting older. Because too few people can afford a new vehicle. Yes, Stellantis could build an e-car for less than 25,000 euros, soon. But for less than 20,000 euros, it will take a few more years. But if, during this time, the Chinese manufacturers were able to exploit their price advantages, then, as he had already pointed out, the European car industry would be in danger, many jobs would be in danger, the middle class would be threatened, and there would be “social upheaval”. One can follow Tavarez perfectly, the analysis is logical, understandable.
And even if Tavarez still sat with Macron – he doesn’t want to make policy. Stellantis has left the large European industry association ACEA and founded the “Freedom of Mobility Forum” instead. With this, Tavarez wants to reach the people, the car buyers, discuss their needs with potential customers, address mobility where it is needed. Not in Brussels, not in the presidential palace, not with lobbyists, but virtually on the street. “We didn’t want e-cars,” he says clearly, “we said very clearly that the world is not yet ready for a conversion from 80 percent fossil energy to 80 percent renewable energy. That takes 20 years, at least. Creating the right infrastructure takes 10 years. We can then deliver the appropriate vehicles in five years. But now it’s the other way round, we have to deliver even though nobody is ready for it. That is wrong.
Finally, Tavarez also talks about business. But that’s not so exciting, showing and interpreting the figures, other employees could do that too. But he can show the big picture better than anyone else. More interviews can be found in our archive.
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